Luca Nichetto - From Murano to Stockholm, a journey from craft to the world of design

Yoko Choy, China editor of Wallpaper* and co-founder of Collective Contemporist, a creative consultancy with offices in China and Amsterdam that brings together designers from East and West for cross-cultural exchanges and collaborations, talks to internationally renowned Italian designer Luca Nichetto.

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After that, I tried to be able to do that as my job. Then things started to move properly. In 2006, I decided to open my studio. It was my first company. But it is also true that in 2003, I met a beautiful woman from Sweden who is now is my wife. In 2010, 2011, she moved to Sweden because she had a very important job offer. I said to her, “I will follow you, why not?” I could go back and forth at that time. Now I don't know if I am going to do the same [travel during the Covid-19 pandemic]. In 2011, I opened the second office here in Sweden, in Stockholm.

Yoko: What is it like working in Venice and working in Stockholm? I think the creative environments are very different. How do the two cultures influence your work or your practice?

Luca: It is a question that I try to give a proper answer to every time. For sure, when I moved here [Stockholm] at the beginning of 2011, one of the topics that I never heard before in Italy was, for example, the way companies here operate new projects, considering their environmental approach as part of the creative process. In Italy, now it has started to be a very important topic, but before, it was not so substantial. Of course, another thing here is that there is very important consideration of the functionality of the object that we are designing. In Italy, in that sense it is much more a statement. Or you are always searching for iconic pieces, something that needs to communicate with the users differently, also from an emotional point of view. And being a person before being a designer, I think, of course, living away from Italy I’m in another completely different culture. There was a kind of feeling that I am still a hundred per cent Italian, so am still adapting myself to different kind of scenarios and different behaviour. I think that my design, for sure, has achieved a good balance between the two different cultures when I’m doing projects.

Yoko: Yeah, I think coming from Italian culture and during your childhood and your formative years being so close to all the craftsmanship and all the excellent artisans working around must reflect heavily on your work.

Luca: Yeah, I think I can say that I consider myself very lucky in that part because most of the Italian designers when they are living in Italy and operating in Italy don't realize how lucky we are having that kind of infrastructure.
And most typically Italian, we are always blaming the system, the situation, blah, blah, blah. We make a big drama. The reality is when you start to design and work with companies abroad, internationally. And you work, I don't know, from North America to China, etc. They seldom realize how spoiled you are as Italian designers because when you are trying to create something new the supply chain, the art designer, the craftsman, always teach you based on their own experience. I receive few “No’s” from suppliers normally. Also, if they have never tried to do something that you have in your mind, they always came out with, “OK, let's try” or maybe “I don't know”. Abroad it’s more likely they’ll say yes if they have had experience and have done something like that before, or they’ll say no if they don't have that. So, there is not that kind of grey zone that for creativity is sometimes probably the most important part of where to be –for example, in Scandinavia, generally, there is that approach, maybe because there is not such a huge network of craftsman, etc. Most of the companies here are editing and not producing products directly. I mean the most successful one is still a lot of small, tiny manufacturers. But there is always yes or no, depending on the price level. So it's much less making a project from a gut feeling that you want to do something beautiful. There is more a focus on the business side. And that’s it.

It's a little bit less – yeah, we can say one kind of design is more Latino, more passionate than the other, which is a little bit more cynical and more profitable.

Yoko: Yeah. So, it makes your latest project very interesting. You designed a new portable lamp for a Venice-based brand called Lodes. Yes, you have it with you. So this is about to give them a new creative direction and also a new direction in terms of doing business or in terms of producing stuff, new pieces. So maybe you can start with the lamp that you have designed for them. In general, how do you help them to renew and refresh the business model?

Luca: In this case, Lodes was a company called “Studio Italia Design” that has existed for 75 years; something like that. It is still a family-run company. During the years they developed a chandelier, the classical chandelier made in metal and Murano glass, etc. By the way, the company is based close to Venice.

Since 2000, let's say five or six years ago, Massimiliano Tosetto, the son of the owner of the company – I think the third generation – started to run the company by himself as managing director. They felt that the company was going well. They were selling well, they were growing, but it was missing one part; the company was considered a very good lighting manufacturer that was also producing for other famous brands, but it was never making a step to be considered a brand by itself. So, he asked me in the beginning if I could help him to do this kind of process or transition. I start, as always talking a lot with them. Together, we came out with the idea to rebrand the company completely. So, we changed the name, too, because “Studio Italian Design” was a little bit misleading; was it a studio? Was it a company?

So we decided to do some research to find a new name. The new name is Lodes. Then I helped them to find an agency that helped them to remake the total brand book. At the same time, it analysed their portfolio, understanding what was missing in it. Where was the room to create new, aesthetic products that could help them to penetrate a different kind of market and distribution?

When I understood that kind of direction, I involved other designers. At the same time, the company contacted possible new employees that could help them to structure the company, including internally, to have a proper technical office or proper R&D etc. In parallel, the company also started to hire brand managers and marketing managers. So, the internal structure then started to be much more focused on the transition that we planned. One of the first outputs of this project was this lamp that I designed that is called Easy Peasy and is a rechargeable lamp; as you mentioned, a table version.

The reason why we decided to do that is that the company is quite well positioned, especially in their retailers worldwide that are selling lighting. But they are not very well positioned, for example, with retailers that are also selling furniture and other stuff. To build a brand, you need to be present in that specific distribution. My intention as a designer and as a design creator of the company was also showing that the company can do a product that is a beautiful lamp. But they still have also a very important aesthetic sense that the lamp is not only beautiful when you are using it and there is light but is also a beautiful object.

In the Easy Peasy, there was inspiration about a gesture that is typical; the nickname of the lamp, in the beginning, was “salt and pepper”, because of the movement of switching on and off the light. And dimming is identical to what you are doing at the table, when you are putting pepper or salt on your dish, and we wanted to do a product that could work not only in the contract market, but also the residential. So, you can use it on a table, in a restaurant, etc., but it can also, very normally in that sense, be used at home.
Another aspect was very important to me: normally when you see this typology of lamp, they are monometallic or made mostly in plastic. For me, it was very important to work on the perception of the value of the lamp. So: there is blowing glass. There is a base in casted aluminium. There is the head that you are using as a switch that is done in a polymer, which is more or less the same as used for billiard balls. It was very important to create a product with a reasonable price. Because I think the retail prices is 240 euros, approximately. It’s a good deal because you have an LED that takes a technology call warm to white that changes the colour when the temperature of the light changes, depending on when you are dimming them. At the same time, I want the people, when they see the price of the lamp, to be attracted to it because they see that this is a beautiful object, and it has a technical performance. But also, the material that was used positions the lamp at a certain level.

So that is something that, in this particular case, I did in one object, but is also, let's say, what I'm trying to do as a design creator, really, to help the company repositioning themselves.

Yoko: As I understand, the glass part of the lamp is produced in Murano. Is that correct?

Luca: It’s close to, but not in Murano; it's more in the hinterland, close to Venice. And then part of the lamp is produced in China. And the assembly is done in Italy. It's a very common way to produce consumer electronic pieces. In a way also, if it's a lamp, but has this technology, battery and so on, this not only a matter of price or investment, but that there was better expertise in that part in China. We decided to pursue that direction. Of course, the territoriality, I think, is also a kind of signature of the brand. I think it's very important that the product that we are designing and producing still has one of its feet in its territory.

Yoko: I always find it very interesting that your relationship with glass; we can see a lot of glass in your projects. I think I know that you're working a lot with the local industry to try to help them to be sustainable in the future. Can you tell us something that you have been doing with the local glass scene?

Luca: Yeah, I feel personally responsible, in a way, to try to be able to preserve, as you say, something that I think is valuable about Murano especially, not only for the people working in that specific field but for the entire world. It's true that the island of Murano has suffering quite a lot, not only now because of the Covid situation, but also before, because everything is very complicated in terms of cost, in terms of people – if they want a glass, they don't understand why they need to spend 50 or 60 euros, because you can go to IKEA with the same amount of money and buy glasses for the rest of your life.

I think as a designer, one of our missions should also be helping the artists and craftsmen that we meet during our professional life to survive and doing projects that have social responsibility; to be able through our objects to give them the opportunity to produce things and to make some money and extend the life of their company because it would be a tremendous shame If one day, my kids go to Murano and they don't see people working with glass anymore. And so, it's true that as a studio, we had the opportunity to be in touch with a lot of realities and companies, not only from the design world but also from the luxury living or luxury sector. All the time, I'm trying to see if I can make the opportunity that happened to us a kind of educational expression of glass. So, I did this, for example, with Salviati, a brand that I started my career with. After a few years, I was taking one path, and they were taking another path until they asked me if I could help them to do an installation in Milan. We did this huge installation, which also involved my friend Ben Gorham, the founder of Byredo, a fragrance company that is a lifestyle company right now. They’ve been doing a lot of other stuff.

So, we did two window displays, the first one in Venice, and we also used glasses as the main material for the installation. And then also the Hong Kong one – by the way, you were there. We also did that project, but then a company in New York wanted us to do lighting. I proposed to do something with Murano glass. When I can, I see if there is a project where the Murano glass can elevate my creativity and my output, while at the same time also matching the request of the client; I always try to create these bridges.

I want, maybe in the future to try to do that with other artisans, too, not only with glass but maybe with other materials. I think it was kind of interesting to see that this kind of gut feeling that I had to make this kind of connection and try to do my small part to maintain these artisans in the design world, was something that was underlying others, too, and Homo Faber and many other designers have started to pay even more attention to craftsman recently. So, I think we are going in a good direction, in that sense.

Yoko: I think what fascinates me very much about the way you work is you're always trying to make connections, whether across different cultures or knowledge or just talent. So, I think that's the beauty of your current work as well. I remember I went to the opening in Paris earlier this year, for La Manufacturer. This is a very good example of how you are trying to combine the French aesthetic and Italian craftsmanship, and also to create a unique design, fashion and retail experience. Maybe you can tell us something about that project as well.

Luca: Yeah, with La Manufacturer, the name means craftsmanship. I had the chance to meet Bob [Robert Acouri], the owner of the Cider group, through mutual friends; he is a super-patient person with very big ambitions and a dream, a personal dream.

Cider is operating mostly in the contract market locally, especially in Paris. But Bob was very clever in taking the recent path to look at Italian manufacturing because he realized that a lot of companies that he was specifying for his contract projects were not manufacturing companies but were more editors. I say, why do I need to wait for the delivery times of an editor when I know that they are produced in Italy so I can go straight to the source, so he can start to produce his own special products that match the specific request of each project?

And then, he collects these products for a catalogue to create his brand. When I saw the catalogue, he was trying to put different topics in one container. The risk was that things were not talking together. When I saw that, I could see the potential because quality-wise, the products were very well done. I think what was missing was the part where there is a red line that made the whole collection understandable. I proposed to Bob to somehow start with carte blanche – a white page, taking care about the designer’s selection to develop together a concept of the brand, and the idea behind the brand, trying to start to visualize that; and we decided to have a company that is a sort of manifesto where the craftsmanship is the most important thing. And it doesn't matter what the expression is, in a way. But the first two expressions were furniture and also fashion.

We tried to merge two things that normally work separately. We added a third layer – that was the idea to have a sort of concept store as a container for these two collections. Sadly, the time that we planned to launch that was not one of the luckiest ones. Because after one month that we launched the brand, there was the lockdown.

But in another way, it gave us the opportunity to take a better look at the future and planning and also how to structure the entire concept. Now, we are planning to open the second store in Geneva and I'm designing the structure of the fashion collection that is integrating better with the furniture part. We are adding new international designers to the team. At the same time, one thing that was very important for me, connecting to the topics that we were discussing previously – the craftsman, and to create a connection. Every year, adding to the collection a product that is maybe coming from an upcoming talent. Last year we did this with Emma Gavaldon van Leeuwen Boomkamp. She's an amazing young designer based in Mexico City. She's half Dutch and half Mexican. She's working mostly in textile design.

I asked Emma to produce a special collection of carpets produced in Oaxaca in Mexico and added these to La Manufacturer collection. In the future, we are looking to do other projects like that. I kind of like the idea that La Manufacturer can be a sort of hybrid of different industries, and a kind of incubator of not only, let's say, aesthetics, but more like personalities, character, skills, legacy and tradition. And becoming also a very interesting player in a country such as France that normally in the last 20 to 30 years has completely lost a layer of companies that serves the middle class, but super luxury companies like the Maisons, or a mainstream company like Ligne Roset.

Yoko: You mention one thing that I’ve always found very interesting: that you work with, as you mentioned a lot of cultures and a lot of countries. Do you find that it’s very challenging to align all these different minds and cultures to create something solid, unique and strong? Or would you say this adds to your creative process to create something even more exciting or new?

Luca: I think sometimes the problem is the frustrating moment when I’m starting to land in a sort of comfort zone; I’m always looking for something uncomfortable. I think in the end, probably, this is my way to operate so I like the complexity of challenges. It’s too easy just to do a nice collection for a super-structured brand. I think the difference you can most make is when you are able not just to design something, but when you are able also to give to the whole project a meaning that is different from a single product.

When you are looking the things from a cultural aspect, as well also from a strategic point of view in terms of successful business, you are able to merge the two things, but I don't think that you can do this with one single product. It's true that working, I don't know, in China, but the same goes for working in Holland, France, Germany, Sweden or Denmark, that you need to switch your way of talking or your output to match the request or the different culture. But I think it’s also an interesting exercise to be able to create a sort of formula as a studio, as a designer, that gives you the opportunity to exchange and interact with a different culture. Anyway, it would be too easy to focus on the biggest brands in the Italian market; after a while, would be super-boring, I think.

Yoko: You’ve just mentioned Denmark. I want to talk about the new collection you did that you created for Wendelbo. It's a new sofa collection, is that correct?

Luca: Wendelbo is such a very interesting brand that has existed for two decades. The last, let's say, three or four years started with the ambition to become a very important player in the – let's call it – the new Nordic wave of companies, and is trying in a way to be different, especially in the way that they present themselves, in the way that they are producing the products. So, it is a company that was born in Denmark. But 15 or 20 years ago, they opened up a factory in Vietnam. And so, they are using their skills and the fact that in Vietnam you can achieve a very affordable price. But part of the Wendelbo family also moved to Vietnam to train their employees, to let them understand the sort of quality ranges, output, etc. Working with them, we learned of the risks and some restrictions, because in Vietnam you can’t do whatever you want. But it's also interesting to see the skills from the manufacturing point of view; and the output in terms of quality, with a price that is super-competitive. Recently, they changed also the CEO, a former sales director of Muuto, Christian [Ernemann], who joined the company. So, there is venture capital behind them that are pushing them in a new direction, to be even more a stronger brand.

It's quite dynamic, the way that the company is changing and moving; we are working on a lot of new projects. As you mentioned, we recently launched a new sofa. It is called Cinder Block. A very simple concept is a modular sofa; blocky, with just a twist on the arm and the back – volumes that are overlapping the other models a little bit. So that gives you the opportunity to do mostly everything from an island to freestanding, to work in any way you need. And that was something very interesting in term of quality and process because it's the classical typology that a lot of Italian brands have in their offer.

But when I went to Copenhagen at the beginning of September, during the launch of the sofa, it was my only trip until the pandemic came. When I saw the price, I asked if it was for a module or for the entire composition. When they told me it was for the entire composition, I was shocked in a positive way because they are going to offer to ordinary people worldwide, something very aspirational in terms of aesthetics and quality at a price that I think most of the middle class around the world can afford. That is helping the diffusion of their products a lot. I truly believe that they will be pretty big quite soon.

Yoko: I think that's also a very important issue now that you have to give people an opportunity to enjoy design, to enjoy quality. Design is not necessarily something ultra-expensive; I think everyone should be able to enjoy or to experience what good design can bring to their life. You were talking about travelling. Before the pandemic, you travelled for almost half of your time, every year. What is it like for you not travelling? Because for a lot of your work you need human connection. Also, a big part of your work is about the physicality of things. How is it working for you?

Luca: I think probably I travelled so much before that I still have in my backpack part of that experience that I can still bring out without travelling right now. Now for sure, sometimes it’s frustrating and complicated because the travelling part is not only about visiting a factory or checking in person the prototype, but it's also socializing with people, going to a dinner with the client, just meeting person to person to start to build up an even stronger relationship. We are trying to do our best to maintain that and build up to something different through Zoom or Skype, etc. I hope it will be temporary. But I don't think I will ever be able to travel as I was travelling before. I probably don't want to travel like that either. To think for all of us, this crisis offered the opportunity to sit for a while. I'm thinking whether it is necessary to travel as before. When I travel again, I will optimize the time that I’m away.

I think it’s helping people to be more focused and appreciate what we don't have now, at this moment. At the same time, we are discovering new tools, a new way to be able to do things, and communicating. Can you imagine if the pandemic came in the seventies, without the opportunity to talk virtually and see people? That would have been a tragedy. But now I think, luckily, we have a lot of tools that help us to still be in touch and be able to perform differently. But, for example, as you know, I was working in China or the US etc. and couldn’t be there every single time on track, prototyping and so on. I had a studio Venice and another studio here so had to find a way to operate and work through that. So, doing a conference or video call or something that, for example, in our studios, was quite common. Not so much as now but it was quite common.

Now maybe it's amplified a bit but was not a big shock as, for example, many other studios that were much more focused on person-to-person meetings or as travelling as part of the culture, such as an Italian tour, for example, where a lot of my clients would still call and ask me when I would next be there in Milan. Because they need the person physically in front of them. There are some cultures that need that. Probably it is harder for them to move on and try to think differently.

Yoko: I think I said when we sat down at the very beginning of the conversation that we all have to adapt to this new normal. Now, what's next for us? Luckily, we can still enjoy your wide range of products, designed around the world. This is at least how we can connect with you.

Luca: I think, it's kind of interesting also for our industry, trying not to blame ourselves or how unlucky we were. OK, we understand that we were unlucky. There is a [Covid-19] situation. We did something bad. There are, I don't know, different theories about what happened. I certainly said, “OK, done. That's it.” Now we can look at the future differently and how we can use this moment not to do a project or design something physically, but try to help everyone, especially my clients, to design a future for our industry that can be different. And so, thinking about how to launch a product, how to show the product to people so they can touch it, how to create that kind of user experience that we know that the trade show probably won’t be able to provide for a while. We are not now just depending on an agenda that has existed ever since I started working as a designer. But, instead, how we can be more authorial about ourselves as a single player in the industry and try to find new opportunities and see that as a bigger project. In that sense it’s quite exciting. There is a lot of things that nobody has done before.

Yoko: I agree. I like this kind of positiveness, coming from the pandemic. As you said, we always have to be positive and creative in any kind of situation. Thank you so much today, Luca, it's been a nice chat with you. I'm sure we have a lot of other questions for you, but we'll wait for another time.

Luca: Okay. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure like always. Thank you.