Sebastian Herkner - In Search of Contemporary Expressions for Age-Old Traditions

Yoko Choy chats to German designer Sebastian Herkner, who established his studio in Offenbach in his native country after he graduated in 2007 from the city’s University of Art and Design. The city is commonly noted for two main things: its weather forecasting centre and its historic leather industry. But now, it is home to one of the design industry’s most sought-after young studios, too.

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Conversation Transcript

Yoko: Hello Sebastian. 

Sebastian: Hi Yoko.

Yoko: Hi, how are you today?

Sebastian: I’m good. I’m good. Sun is shining, so it’s good, and it’s almost weekend. So, it’s always good.

Yoko: That’s true. So, where are you talking to us from today?

Sebastian: I’m at my table in the studio here in Offenbach, which is the city very close to Frankfurt. So, there’s just the river Main between. And I’ve been living here since 2001. I started here at the University of Art and Design Offenbach, and then after graduation in 2007 I established my own studio here.

Yoko: OK. I have never been to Offenbach, but I know that you have your studio there and there is also one of my favourite leather brands, Tsatsas. 

Sebastian: Tsatsas, yes, they produce around the corner.

Yoko: So, as I understand this is a city very rich in crafts and craftsmanship. So, can you tell us a bit more about that?

Sebastian: Yes, Tsatsas is actually the only leather producer now in the city, you know. When you enter the city, it says German Weather City, because there’s the weather forecasting centre, and also German Leather City. There’s the leather fair and the leather museum, but all the manufacturers, the producers and big companies, they’ve all disappeared in the last 20 years because of different reasons, to produce somewhere else cheaper or they closed. 

And that was the reason for me to consider getting more into craft in my work because I know a lot of people, and the parents of friends, who have been working in the leather business, sewing, packaging, delivering or whatever, or supplying to the leather industry. And it was something connecting all the people and creating the culture of Offenbach; and when that disappeared over the last decades, I think the link between the people got lost and also the identity, the culture and that. 

So: bringing people together – like, if you think about Murano where our friend Luca Nichetto comes from, there it’s all about glass and glass connects the people. It was the same here in Offenbach that leather connected people, and Tsatsas – the brand you mentioned – they still keep up with the heritage of the city with the craft, with the value, with the beauty of leather products. And I was thinking also, “OK, what is the beauty of craft?” because when I started early in 2000 it was a lot about new innovation, new materials, plastics, whatever, and I actually thought, “OK, let’s go the other way, focus on craft,” which I knew, of course, from my grandparents and from museums and things like this, and it so important for design history and still today for new design products.

Yoko: Very true. So, are you working with local craftsmen or any kind of craft in your work at the moment? 

Sebastian: There are local ones here. They are around the corner, but you know Germany – it’s not that big. So, we have a lot of producers. Like for the Bell Table, for ClassiCon, they are in Bavaria, which is three hours away by car. And I love the fact that the companies are close by because then I can go there to visit them, to look behind the scenes, to understand the craftsmen – what they are doing, how they work and to understand the material and their techniques and what they specialise in. Because every glass blowing company, for example, has specific techniques, and for me it’s always a discovery to go there to understand and to take those inspirations home and start sketching or working.

Yoko: So, you mentioned the Bell Table you designed for ClassiCon, and a lot of people came to know about you and your work through the Bell Table so can you tell us a little bit about the concept and how do you got to work with ClassiCon?

Sebastian: Well, actually the sketch for the initial design is 11 years old. It was from 2009, and I presented the table for the first time at SaloneSatellite in Milan. It’s a platform for young designers every year, which is very important for young designers, to support them and to give them visibility to the press. And I received good feedback, especially from the press, and then it was the issue to find a producer who wanted to take it for their portfolio. Because at that time I mentioned it was about new material innovations and technology, things like this, and then there was a table produced in traditional glass and brass. 

So, very old-fashioned materials, and it took me three years to get it in production with ClassiCon then Oliver Holy [the owner of the brand] called me, and he wanted to have a table of his own and then for his parents. And then he asked if he could produce it, and then since 2012 we produced it in two sizes, and finally this year in Cologne at the fair we even presented the dining table. So, it has a long story, and I was looking into brass and I was thinking about doing a side table. 

Normally, a side table is with a glass top and a metal base, but I put both materials’ topologies upside down and, what I said already, to swim against the river, to do work not with new material, but with traditional materials; the same with the table to change the arrangement of materials. And the big issue actually for me at that time was to find a glass blower around the corner, because there are a lot of companies, but they work more for the chemical industry – glass tubes and cylinders and things like this. 

And then it took me a couple of weeks to find a producer and Freiherr von Poschinger called; it’s in Bavaria next to the Czech border. So, that’s the area of glass production, Germany and Czech Republic, and this company is more than 450 years old, and that’s very, very special. I think it’s my oldest supplier, and they are in their 16th generation. So, this is also very interesting because it’s still the same family. Nowadays if I work with companies there are just a few still that are families, but there are so many now driven by investors and they change every three years. And there you have a company 450 years in the hands of the same people with an amazing knowledge of glass production. 

You can also find this at Bellini or other Murano-based companies for sure. And when I went there the first time 11 years ago it was just for small objects for restoration – if someone dropped a vase or needed to fix a chandelier; things like this. But now, since 2012, since the table has been running with ClassiCon, they produce the table non-stop and it’s a kind of sustainability also, a cultural benefit for the area that this table and now also more products support the company itself, the manufacturer. But also, to give attention to glass production again and there are a lot of young people now working who are getting trained as a glass blower. So, it’s also important to give the knowledge a future.

Yoko: Yes; how to connect people and how to give a new life to old crafts. 

Sebastian: That’s very important to connect people, to have a dialogue. Design is about conversation, it starts with paper and a pen, and then sharing the idea with the team, making small rough 3D sketches, a model – not about proportions, just to visualise the idea. Then the conversation between the computer and the human, and then between the craftsman and us. So, I love to work with the craftsman in their workshop. Unfortunately, this year it’s a little bit more tricky. 

So, normally I travel to Columbia or to Taiwan or a lot to Italy and Denmark to work together with the people and this is something I really miss. Also, at the fairs, to explain the product to journalists, to dealers, to designers and to enthusiastic people, to show them and explain that it’s a lot of work to design a product. And there are a lot of amazing people involved with their hands; they put their sweat and their passion and their concentration and their knowledge everyday into the product to produce it, whether it’s a wooden chair or a glass table or whatever. 

Because if you go to Salone del Mobile – to mention the biggest furniture show – I think most of the products are handmade. Of course, you have plastic chairs, they are pressed and every five minutes you get a chair, but in the end, there are also people involved to get the finish perfect, to check everything and pack it and so on. And it’s so important to mention the fact that there are a lot of humans involved, also collaborations in Asia and it’s woven and there are people sitting for four days on a seating to weave it. And sometimes when I have a presentation at a dealer’s, they ask if it’s done by robot or if it’s 3D printed or whatever, but it’s done by people; they do it so perfectly and each item looks the same.

Yoko: The success of the Bell Table tells us that actually we are very much eager to have this connection to material, to craft and to people and the Bell Table became iconic in your career. I want to know how you define an icon. How do you make a design icon?

Sebastian: Actually, you cannot make one. It’s not that you look in a book and then it’s like a recipe and you have to put good tools and materials and craftsmen all in a big pot and you boil it and then you have an icon. Unfortunately it’s not possible; otherwise, we would just do icons. Of course, not every product we design is a Bell Table or a successful product, but there are a lot of people involved; it’s not just the designer and craftsmen. It’s also about good photography, good marketing, good agents and dealers, but our idea, what drives us every single day, is to think about quality, a long-lasting product which becomes a companion for life, maybe a companion for generations. 

Because now during COVID-19 we’ve had the time to consider our life, to reflect on our life, to think about quality, to go to the local market maybe to buy vegetables. I’ve had more time to cook because normally I’m sitting for 35% of the year in a plane travelling for talks and fairs and presentations and meetings. And now I have also had the time to enjoy life at home and to think about quality of life and this is the same for products. We want good products and we still buy too much nonsense and stupid things, and we want to get rid of it after one season or two seasons. It’s a little bit like the fashion industry. That’s a big topic always, fast fashion, but it exists also with furniture. 

Fast furniture is everywhere. You can buy furniture not just at furniture stores, you get it also at the local supermarkets, those “special collections”. And this is furniture that has nothing to do with lasting a long time or quality or a lot of design impact or work. There are a lot of rip-offs, copies, and we also have to somehow educate the people to buy things which last for a long time. Like you see, for example, in Denmark, when I often go, you walk around the streets, an in the evening when the lights are on in the living room you see even in the most simple areas the people have a design icon such as a chair, because it’s an icon; maybe it’s also a status symbol, but on the other hand it’s also quality. 

Sebastian: Those designs have existed already for 60 years. You can buy perfect vintage ones, you can buy re-editions or new ones from all those Danish brands, and I think the people appreciate the design and the quality; all folk would want those products with our partners, and the European design, production and market is very high quality – you can see this if you go to France or Italy and to all those suppliers. Because most of them were sustainable in their area, and that’s very special. In Italy they have their suppliers around the corner, which are specialists for small brass feet for lounge chairs or for upholstery or for wood bending. And that’s always the best opportunity of course for a designer like me to go there to develop long-lasting products with those companies.

Yoko: So, we’re all in this pandemic time, we all have an opportunity stay home and to rethink about our lifestyle and enjoy a bit something that we can’t do when we have to constantly travel. But for your work travelling is also a very important part of your creations. So, how is it affecting you that you can’t travel anywhere to meet your suppliers and manufacturers, your clients or your audience? How is it working for you?

Sebastian: Travelling of course is a huge privilege. You feel it nowadays especially, but also for me I did a lot of camping with my parents when I was a child, in Scandinavia, Italy and five, six years in a row in France. So, I know every church and stone in France, I think. And then with my job I had the opportunity to go to Taiwan, Columbia, Japan and Russia and also to Africa, to Zimbabwe and this is always a huge source of inspiration. And to go there not like a tourist, to drive there on the bus, to go there to the workshops, to sit down to have lunch, dinner together, to drink the local beer, listen to the music and so on. And this is now, of course, missing.